Thomas Massie Primary Battle Exposes Deep Republican Divide Over Trump Loyalty and Independent Thought

I get calls from people all the time that don’t even really like me. Other people will call and they’ll want to talk about stuff. And look, some people call because they want to push an agenda, right? I know there’s a lot of people who call like, hey, have you heard about, and they’re not telling me that because they’re like into good government. They’re telling me that because they want whatever campaign or policy or politician they’re for to benefit from it. I get it, right? But if it’s things that are worth talking about, we explore it, we look into it. So I have conversations all day with people from just across the political spectrum, Democrats, Republicans, whatever. And I got a phone call yesterday from someone who is very, very entrenched in the Republican Party. They are very respected Republican. They’re conservative. They’ve spent a life working for, you know, what I think are conservative causes and candidates. They’re very influential person in the Republican Party. And they called and they were saying, they said, man, what is going on with the Republican Party? And I said, well, what do you mean? And, you know, we were talking about a variety of things. And they said, well, I think Thomas Massie could lose on Tuesday. And I said, yeah, you know, you’re right. There’s a good chance Thomas Massie could lose on Tuesday. And they said, well, but why? What, like, what is happening with people that they’re just not even looking at what’s happening anymore, not looking at voting records anymore. It’s just, hey, if Trump hates them, they’re out.

Thomas Massie Race Becomes Major Test of Republican Party Identity and Trump Influence

And I said, that’s an interesting question. And the more I thought about it, and then we talked through, you know, some things and I said, this would be a really good conversation for our show. Because I think what happens with Thomas Massie is going to tell us a lot about the Republican Party. It’s going to tell us a lot about what the party is, what it represents, and where it’s going, because I honestly, guys, I don’t have any idea anymore. John Mellencamp, very early on in his career, put out an album and it was called Nothing Matters and What If It Did. And I Ain’t Even Done with the Night was the big song on that album. And I was thinking about last night like, maybe that’s where we’re at now with the Republican Party, where nothing matters. And what if it did? Because Thomas Massie votes, governs, attempts to govern, often in a minority, but attempts to govern on everything the Republican Party claims to be about. He’s pro tax cut. He’s pro spending reform. He’s pro limited government. He’s anti-war, he’s anti-pedophile. He’s been the leader in the Republican side, led on the Republican side of getting the Epstein information out. Everything we know so far, much of it has come because of Thomas Massie. He’s pro transparency, like everything on paper that the Republican Party espouses to be. Thomas Massie votes on it. And he has for years. Yeah, he’s a little obnoxious. Sure, so am I. Is he a pain in the ass? Sure, so am I. But Thomas Massie, look, our politicians, Republican Party espouses a set of ideals. The Democrats espouse a set of ideals. But ultimately, we as citizens shouldn’t want our politicians to be on any team but our own. The team us, team taxpayer. Votes should be cast. Decisions should be made, not on, is it best for Republicans or is it part of the Republican team? People kind of team up, right, based on a core set of ideals or principles. But they should be voting based on what’s best for us. Does any person believe that releasing the Epstein files, everything, getting everything out there isn’t best for the American people? Is any person walking around going, we got too much damn information about Epstein, who I think ran one of the largest human sex trafficking rings in the history of this country, if not the world. And yet there’s a whole bunch we don’t know. Is any person walking around going, man, I’m just getting too much information on Epstein. I’m just learning too much. No. A lot of people voted for Trump because he promised to give all the information on Epstein. And yet the Republicans, at the direction of Trump, almost universally lined up against disseminating information on Jeffrey Epstein. And the only reason it got out was Thomas Massie teamed up with Ro Khanna, a Democrat, in the House, and forced that information out. That isn’t a Republican or Democrat thing. That’s an American thing. That’s a human decency thing. Justice for victims of human sex trafficking.

Massie’s Voting Record Highlights Growing Divide Between Conservative Principles and Party Loyalty

We as a society should believe in the idea that our money matters, that paying our bills matters. If it doesn’t matter, why do you have to do it? If paying your bills didn’t matter, then why do you get evicted from your home if you don’t pay your mortgage? If paying your bills didn’t matter, why do you get penalties, interest on not paying your credit card off? If paying your bills didn’t matter, why does the government bring the hammer down on you if you don’t pay your taxes? Everywhere but the government, we say paying our bills matters. And Thomas Massie says no, it matters here too. Like all of the things that the Republicans are supposed to be about, Thomas Massie actually does. And yet he is in serious danger of losing his re-election tomorrow against a Trump backed challenger because Trump’s mad at Massie. Look, Trump was mad at Greg Walker and Jim Buck and Travis Holdman and even the guys like Greg Good, who I was like, well, Good actually seems like a kind of a decent guy. I don’t agree with his voting record. I don’t have any problem if any of these guys went down because I don’t think they voted the right way. Like I think you look at Walker and Buck and Holdman, especially those guys, I mean, some of the other ones that went down and you’d say, yeah, their voting record, they deserve to go. Now my frustration is I don’t think these candidates that ran against them stood for anything. When the one guy, the guy who beat Holdman was like, yeah, this campaigning is too hard, I quit. That’s what the guy said, campaigning was too hard. And we’re led to believe that that guy’s going to be a fighter in the Senate? Campaigning was too hard. Campaigning is the easiest thing in the world. Hey, vote for me. Here’s what I believe in. Thank you. Have a nice day. Michelle Davis is a sitting state rep who beat Greg Walker. Her voting record, in many cases, mirrored Walker’s. Why would I think it’s going to be different? That was my frustration with the candidates was most of them I don’t think are going to do anything different. I don’t think they even know what they’re running on other than, hey, I get to be a senator now. Woo hoo. But in the case of Thomas Massie, this guy has done everything we should want in a representative. We should want representatives to say, hey, if you’re going to send our military men and women over to potentially fight and die in a foreign land, yeah, there’s rules and regulations. We should, one, have the highest level of scrutiny on that. And two, if you’re going to be there for 90 days, you gotta declare war, which means you got to go through the Congress. Oh, hey, you kind of got to make the case to us that it’s more than just all Israel all the time. Those were Massie’s arguments, saying the president needs to declare war on Iran if we’re going to put our men and women at risk for a prolonged period past 60 days, if we’re going to spend billions of dollars, if we’re going to totally upset the American economy, the economy of the world, really, over your decisions, you got to get our permission to do that. That’s some egregious act? That’s some unforgivable sin? No, that sounds like a really pro taxpayer position. Hey, if Trump’s got this great reason that we need to be doing this in Iran, great. Let’s hear it. And I said the same thing about Obama and his military engagements. And I said the same thing about Bush and his military engagements. It’s not a Republican or Democrat thing. It’s not a pro or anti-Trump thing. It’s pro you should make the case if you’re going to do all of these things and the Congress, who we elect to be a check and balance on the president after a certain period of time, should have oversight on that and a say in that. And yet we’ve reached a point now where the only thing that matters to so many people, well, what’s Trump think about him? Except Trump doesn’t have any core set of convictions either. I mean, come on, Trump. Trump is a shapeshifter, right? We all know this. Trump espouses things. He says things. But then when push comes to shove, you know, the slogan for these foreign governments dealing with Trump is TACO, Trump Always Chickens Out. The slogan amongst his opposition in the House and the Senate is Trump Always Chickens Out. Trump wants to get deals done. There’s no core. I mean come on, Trump’s not a conservative. He’s not anywhere close to being a conservative. He’s whatever he needs to be in the moment for success of whatever his standard for success, of whatever thing he’s trying to do. And okay, it’s easy to do a victory lap when he gets Greg Walker or Jim Buck or Travis Holdman, because those guys were awful. Raise taxes, grew government, gave money away to cronies, to businesses and people that were supporting the Republicans and the special interests above you. But Thomas Massie is not that. Thomas Massie is us, guys. Thomas Massie is the person who has repeatedly taken hard votes that say our money matters. Spending matters, taxes matter, paying our bills matter. Accountability when it comes to our soldiers fighting and dying matters.

Trump Escalates Attacks Against Republicans Who Support Independent Conservatives

And now, not only is Trump going after Massie because Massie’s been a pain in his ass, he’s now going after anyone who’s supporting Massie, including Lauren Boebert. Lauren Boebert has arguably been the biggest supporter of Donald Trump in the entire US Congress. And when she supported Massie because she supported him for years, she even said in her announcement, she says, look, I’ve supported Thomas Massie, but I really support President Trump. And that won’t change. Like, I want Massie to succeed because I believe in what he believes in for the Republican Party. I believe what he believes in for our country. I also want our president to thrive. She was totally, it’s like the most bizarre endorsement ever, where she was totally complimentary of Trump while endorsing Massie. Here’s what Trump said about Lauren Boebert. After all she did. She didn’t say anything bad about Trump. She said Trump’s great. Trump’s wonderful. All she said is I’m also supporting Thomas Massie and I’m going to go campaign for him. And it’s not against Trump in any shape, form or fashion. Here’s Trump’s response, quote. Boebert is campaigning for the worst Republican congressman in the history of our country, Thomas Massie. Stop. The worst Republican congressman in the history of our country. There have been corrupt, unethical, criminal people, people who have gone to prison, who have served in the US Congress. There have been people who have sent our men and women into ill begotten wars, who have spent us into oblivion, who have caused this massive inflation that we’re dealing with, who have made life unaffordable. Thomas Massie is the worst congressman in the history of our country? Of the great commonwealth of Kentucky, and anybody who can be that dumb deserves a good primary fight, he posted this on Truth Social. And this is where this just gets ridiculous, guys. Even though I long ago endorsed Boebert, if the right person came along, it would be my honor to withdraw that endorsement and endorse a good and proper alternative. Just let me know or announce your candidacy and I’ll be there for you. What? That’s what your endorsement is about. You’re that petty. You’re that spiteful. You’re that mean spirited. This person can’t, people can’t disagree with you on anything. They can’t disagree with you on anything or you’ll rescind your endorsement and encourage somebody, anybody. You don’t even know who. You don’t even care. This was my problem with the Trump endorsement here in Indiana. It doesn’t mean anything. He endorsed Liz Brown, a total liberal who openly defied Trump’s base on some of their key issues, constitutional carry, immigration enforcement. Trump endorsed her. Ron Alting, Ron Alting is so liberal. He is so much more liberal than a bunch of Democrats in the Senate. And Trump endorsed him. This is so just hateful. Hey, I’ve been with you on 99.9% of the stuff. I’ve been behind you on, everything. I’ve stood with you on everything. I’m talking about Lauren Boebert here. But hey, this is my friend and he’s been a friend and I voted with him on a whole bunch of stuff. And he really represents what I think the Republican Party should be. And on paper, what we say we should be. And so I’m going to go campaign for him. But I want anybody to know that I still love you. And you’re amazing. Nope. Not good enough. You’re out of here. And I don’t even care who runs against you because, not because you did something against me, but because you’re supporting someone who I hate because they were mean to me. That’s what Trump is all about. This second term has been a revenge tour, guys. It’s not been about us. It’s not been about bettering the lives of Americans. It’s a revenge tour. And so, you know, this person called me yesterday and they were saying, what is the Republican Party? He said, we’re going to find out because, and by the way, Thomas Massie’s primary is now the most expensive primary in American history. And Trump’s side is winning the fundraising, the Trump and the all Israel all the time lobby people are winning the fundraising battle. They’re not spending their money to help get more Republicans in the Senate. They’re not spending this money to defend Republicans in close races in the House. They’re spending the money on a revenge tour, a hate filled, mean spirited revenge tour to get rid of a guy who behaved too much like a Republican on paper. And I’ve said this for years, right? The Republicans on paper are great. The Republicans, in actuality, they suck. I’m still a Republican because I believe in words on paper. I believe in the Republican platform. But that’s not how they govern. And this person was talking to me and they said, not only are they going to get good guys like Massie, Trump has scared good people into complete and utter obedience. I said, right. This person was talking about the various politicians in our state and how they have changed over time in the era of Trump. And they were people who were, it’s not like they were liberal. And then, oh, well, we became fake conservatives under Trump. They got better. No, they were conservatives who took hard votes, who did hard things, who now are just whatever Trump wants. Everything is obedience and subservience to Trump, even when he’s wrong. People like Todd Rokita. We’ve laid that out to you. How Rokita changed in a Trump era. Marlin Stutzman, who was a reliable, independent, conservative voice in the Congress who regularly took hard votes. And you know what happened to Marlin? He got bombarded by money, Mitch McConnell’s money in a US Senate race, and he got smoked by Todd Young. And now that Marlin’s back in the Congress, he’s a totally different person. All Marlin does is whatever he believes the Trump team wants him to do. And Trump’s not always right, guys. Marlin Stutzman doesn’t represent Donald Trump. He’s supposed to represent the people of his district. And if you look at the people of his district, which is, you know, the Fort Wayne area. Liz Brown looks like she’s going to survive that primary challenge, but barely. I mean, it’s basically a 50/50 race. It’s, I don’t know what the final, 15 votes or something like that. I don’t remember what the final tally was there. Your district isn’t totally subservient to Trump, but yet the governance is everything these people do. Jim Banks is another one. You know, I think about Jim Banks. I used to interview Jim Banks quite a bit back when I was the fill in guy on WIBC, even before I had the show. Jim Banks always struck me, and I’m talking on air and off, as a thoughtful, reasonable, independent thinking conservative who would take on the party when it was right to do that. And all of these people, all of that is gone now. We are in a world where subserviency to Trump, no pun intended, trumps everything. Independent thought is not allowed anymore. Independent thinking saying hey, I like the guy. I voted for him. But you know what? He’s wrong on this. Think about a company. Think about if you have a company where the CEO can never be questioned. Yeah, there’s a board of directors, but the board of directors can’t stand up to them. They can’t push back on them. They can’t object to them. They can’t stop them. How does that company operate? Why is there even a board of directors? The board is there because they’re supposed to be oversight. Sure, the CEO is the leader. He’s the visionary. He lays things out. But the nuts and bolts, the actual governance, it comes from the board of directors. They have to be able to say stop when bad things are going on. They have to say stop when the CEO is getting out of control. You know what a company that doesn’t, or a board of directors doesn’t stop the CEO, you know what a great example of that was? World Wrestling Entertainment. Look at all the stuff that came out about Vince McMahon over the past 4 or 5 years. Everybody knew what Vince was, right? For years, it’s not a secret. You look at these documentaries that have been made, the Netflix thing, like everybody knew a lot. A bunch of the stuff made the papers, and yet they kept saying, well, Vince makes a lot of money and Vince is really scary, and Vince rules this company with an iron fist. And so we’re just going to keep letting Vince do whatever Vince wants to do. And then finally, one anonymous board member had had enough and leaked information out to various newspapers. I believe it’s multiple board members, but they didn’t do it to his face. And what happened? All the heinous crap that Vince is alleged to have pulled came out. Like that. That’s a company where they’re so afraid of the people in charge that the board of directors won’t stand up and won’t speak out. That’s what’s happening now with the Republicans. We are now in a world where speaking out is a death sentence. You are now called every name under the sun. You’re vilified. They wreck your life. They try to wreck your life if you say anything bad about one guy. My God, what has become of us?

Republican Party Faces Questions About Free Thought, Accountability, and Its Post-Trump Future

And so this is what I told this person. I said, look, life is all about whatever space you occupy. I heard this, you guys know, a couple years ago, when my daughter was born, I took a part time job working at a golf course, helped sort of run the pro shop. I would bartend on the weekends at the AM, and I really enjoyed it. And I got a lot of pleasure out of bartending because I got to talk to a lot of people. I got to meet a lot of people. I got to hear a lot of perspectives from people. Me bartending is pretty freaking easy. When you get right down to it, you’re just like opening beers and making mixed drinks. You know, it’s hard work, but good bartenders are the people who know how to converse with the clientele. And so I was a mediocre at best bartender, but people liked me because I was obviously good at conversation. And one of the events I bartended was a celebration of life event. And I thought, man, when I go, this is the best way to do it. No funeral, celebration of life. You open the bar tab up and have your best friends come in and remember you as they loved you, right? And the eulogy that was given for this person, so old woman, she passed away. She was a mother, grandmother. And they were talking about how, and this, like it has always stayed with me, think of your life like a train ride, a train ride across the country, and there’s two trains going at the same time. And the two trains of your life are people are passengers on your train, and you are a passenger on their train. And you think about your life. If it’s your train and it’s a train ride across the country. People get on your train. People get off your train. Some people stay a small amount of time. Some people stay the whole time. Some people are there your whole life, right? How do you want those people to remember the ride on your train? How do you want people to remember being a guest in your life? And then you are a guest on other people’s trains. Sometimes you have a short interaction with people. Sometimes you have an interaction that lasts decades. Sometimes you have an interaction that lasts your whole life. How do you want people to remember you as a guest on their train? And that really, really hit home with me. And, you know, all this stuff sort of obviously coincided with my daughter being born. And look, my life changed immensely when Olivia was born because that life becomes your top priority. Nothing. Everything else is put into perspective after that. And when all of these things were happening, I realized like my job, whether it was at the radio station or here, my job, my thing that I do, my life is different because so many people get to hop on my train that I don’t know very well. Some of you guys I will never meet, but yet you’re a part of my train ride and I’m a part of yours. Some of you every single day. And it’s a real blessing to be able to do that. And so what I realized is wherever I’m at, I occupy a space. It could be this that we’re doing now. It could be the number one rated radio show that we had for years. Wherever I’m at, I occupy a space. And what I do with that space is very important because I have so many riders on my train. And I have a different life in the sense of I have the riders on my train, or people that I’m a rider on that are my family like everybody else. But I also have this really broad swath of people that are led into my life every single day. And so the last several years, I’ve really thought about what do I do in my space? What do I do with the gift that I’ve been given? And I decided, and I, you know, subconsciously decided this long ago, but I really made a conscientious effort on this. And this is what I told this person yesterday. I said, you just have to realize certain things are beyond your control. You have to be the best you that you can be every single day. You have to speak what you know to be true every single day. And sometimes that is going to culminate in, of this earthly world, what we’ll call victories. And a lot of times it’s going to culminate in a defeat, especially in the political realm. But your job is to be the best you that you can be every single day, and then realize that you’re influencing people that you’ll never know about. It may not always reveal itself as some sort of clear victory in the moment. Sometimes they will be defeats, but eventually, if you keep doing the thing, people are going to gravitate to that. And so whatever happens with Thomas Massie, it’s going to be a direction where the Republican Party is at in the moment. If Massie wins, which he’s won numerous times with tough challengers, then it’ll show that independent thought still matters. That being for the people, taking our position, still matters. If he loses, it’s a definitive. We’ve entered a world where subserviency to one guy is what’s driving the party, and that will have a shelf life. That shelf life, because these politicians are all about them and all about their own advancement and all about what is best for their power, will ride that Trump train until it stops and it may stop this fall. If the Republicans do bad in the midterms and Trump’s the lame duck, that train will come to an end. And maybe we will see a resurgence, a rebirth, something new, something.